February 2024: Real Floods Have Real Dates

Steve:
But it's not a blind faith. If it's a blind faith, then you can just be whatever you want. You know, all roads lead to God, right? I mean, just believe, you just pick your holy book and go with that and believe it by faith? Well, we have to have something that separates truth from fairy tale land.

Hello and welcome to The BC Messenger Podcast. This is Real Science, Real Bible, Real History and Real World. We're at Season 2, Episode 7 of our podcast. It's February 2024. And as always, I'm sitting here with my wife, Jennifer, across from me. And we thank you for joining us.

Jennifer:
We're thrilled to be with you for another month of Real Science, Real Bible, Real History, Real World. And Steve and I were talking as we were setting up for the podcast here that God is very good to let us do things we love and talk about things we're passionate about. And we are ready to go for another episode, a very special episode we have for you today.

Steve:
It is. We do enjoy this. I even like setting the equipment up. I enjoy technology. I think I've mentioned that before.

Jennifer
I'm glad you do because I don't.

Steve:
Right. Well, I enjoy it. I enjoyed messing with microphones and sound boards. Maybe we'll have fun one day and talk about some of the stuff we use. That would be... you'd love that.

Jennifer:
I would have to sit out on that episode of the podcast.

Steve:
That would just be a solo Steve podcast. So we won't get into that today.

Jennifer:
No, I love ideas and concepts and communicating truth. And here's a statement I saw some time ago that stuck with me, in particular with our aging side of the research here. "Imagine a world with more birthdays in it." Don't you love that? What does that bring to your mind? Imagine a world with more birthdays in it. More people, more celebrations, more life. I love that.

Steve:
Birthdays are good. Birthdays are happy. What's behind a birthday? Well, life. Life is behind a birthday. 

Jennifer:
Celebrating another year. That's right. And speaking of birthdays, my co-host here has a birthday right at the time that this podcast is going out. Steve is celebrating his 48th birthday.

Steve:
February is a good month to have a birthday. Even though it's kind of a nasty month.

Jennifer:
It's a great time to celebrate. So not only is it the co-host birthday month, it is also Dr. Aardsma's birthday in February on the 18th. And of course, he's my dad. And so we want to wish him a very happy birthday. And two great men have birthdays in February. Well, a few more than two, I'm sure. But the reason that we wanted to lead off with a thought about birthdays was not because of our co-host, but because of a special segment at the end of the podcast today, we are going to hear from someone who has celebrated 99 birthdays. Can't wait to share this with you.

Steve:
She's a special lady.

Jennifer:
It's a precious interview. And it does correlate with the anti-aging research going on here at The Biblical Chronologist. I just believe you're going to be inspired and blessed by hearing from this dear lady at the end of the podcast today.

Steve:
Yes, I agree. So Jen, give us the rundown for the podcast today.

Jennifer:
All right. Our featured topic is circling back to Noah's Flood. It's been talked about quite a bit lately on especially Twitter and Christian circles there. So we have to weigh in with some things on that conversation. And then research updates, especially on the pillar of fire that led the Israelites through the wilderness, and a few other things going on, currently happening in Dr. Aardsma's work with the historicity of the time of the Exodus. And then our anti-aging section and our Helen's View are closely connected today as we bring you the interview we already mentioned.

Steve:
Yes. Well, we had it all planned, didn't we, Jen? We had our podcast all figured out. We knew what we were going to do. We had a topic of discussion. Even a recording we were going to do on this podcast, February. A song. A song, a musical song. But we changed it all up. We decided to scrap that plan. Well, not scrap it. Put it on hold and do something totally different because of something that came up. 

Jennifer:
Yes. Sometimes you got to be flexible when you're in communications work. You have to address the need of the hour, which is kind of where we're finding ourselves here. We, as Steve mentioned, we were going to be on one of the locations of the Israelites in the wilderness. And we had recorded a song, took an entire day to gather the family and record a song to go along with that.

Steve:
That was just the recording.

Jennifer:
I know. Right. And then God redirected our path and showed us we need to hold off on that because of what happened.

Steve:
Yeah. Well, a video was released in mid-January by a well-known Christian. Many people know the Ortlund family from years ago, and Gavin Ortlund put out a video concerning the topic of Noah's flood. And the specific thing that he was dealing with was the region of the flood. How big was the flood? Was it a global flood? Was it just a regional flood? And he gave reasons as to why he believes what he believes. And this topic spread like wildfire on social media.

Jennifer:
I started seeing it a little bit as I was keeping an eye on our Twitter account. And these algorithms are smart and they feed you the things that they know that you like to talk about. So of course, the Flood conversations were being directed into our feed there on The BC Messenger on Twitter. And I did notice an uptick in talk about how much of the world that the Flood had covered. And it kind of was rising up as like a lot of people talking about this. And then I was up late one night, which was very unusual for me, and our son, who is a college student getting his master's degree in another state, texted a couple of things which I normally would not have seen until the next morning. But you know how these college students are. He said he had just gotten back from Waffle House and it was like one o'clock in the morning. And he texted this to me, "Seems to be a movement on X Twitter talking about the flood and creation right now?" And so we chatted about that and about this video that had come out. And so then the next morning, Steve and I ended up talking about it.

Steve:
Yes. So we had our plan. We knew where we were headed, but we changed it. And we thought, you know what, let's just go a different direction with our podcast because we have a lot to say on this topic.

Jennifer:
And not only do we have a lot to say, but nobody else is saying it.

Steve:
Right. And then we're going to get into that today. The things that we are saying, it's just a fact. Nobody else is saying these things. Stay with us here because we're going to give you information today that you may have never heard before. We have talked about it on previous podcasts. It's all over Dr. Aardsma's website. Maybe you've listened in to some of this conversation going on on social media and maybe you've been questioning some of these things about the Flood. We're going to get into some of that today. Now we in response to that video decided to make our own video, and we have linked to that video in our show notes. You can go to the show notes and get the link. You can go to YouTube on our Truth in Time channel and look it up. But it's just Jennifer and I very similar to our podcast. We're in our studio here that we normally record this podcast in and we set up a camera and videoed ourselves talking about the subject of Noah's Flood, was it global, local, regional or something else? What's the actual title of the video?

Jennifer:
"Noah's Flood: Local, Global or Something Else?" If you've followed the research here, you know that Dr. Aardsma's flood model is a hemispherical flood model and we're not going to dwell on that today on the podcast because you can watch the video and get all the info there and listen to some of our other podcasts about that. Because there's a third option. And so often when opinions are so sharply divided on a topic, on an issue, it's because nobody has actually arrived at the correct conclusion yet. And that's what you kind of see happening there in that conversation. So many people tweeting in response and some people saying, "I think you can read the text definitely to say it was a regional or local flood." And others saying, "Absolutely Not. It can only be read as a global event." And everybody has their reasons and everybody is strongly convinced. But they're arguing strictly from the text, and getting into troublesome ground, because they really can't come down to an answer on the question.

Steve:
Well, just to jump to the point that we're going to get to in just a second, you have to have a date. We're going to get to that in just a minute. You have to have a date, and nobody is saying that. We are discussing opinions as you just said, but what we are not discussing is actual facts and data, which we so desperately need. On our video, we do discuss that third option, a hemispherical flood. Not a global flood... we're just giving you the information here right at the beginning... not a global flood, not a regional flood. I mean, it's a global event, but it's not a global flood in the sense that the entire earth was covered with water. The water of the southern hemisphere flowed to the northern hemisphere and it is a hemispherical flood proven by science. Shown how the mechanism of the flood worked. What took place. All of that in Dr. Aardsma's book, The Flood Happened 3520 BC. On our video, we discuss this in more detail. Go to that video, go to the show notes, go to the link, and we talk about the issue of the extent of Noah's Flood. But what we want to talk about today is, what nobody else is saying.

Jennifer:
On Gavin Ortlund's video where he is saying that he believes the text could be read as a local flood, he leads off with a clip from Bill Maher. Am I saying that right, Bill Maher? He is a well-known American comedian and writer. So while you have the Christians arguing over whether the flood was local or global, you have the unbelieving world and somebody like Bill Maher who is scoffing, laughing, mocking the very concept of the Flood. "Imaginary" is the word that he uses there as he is just amusing the audience to great degrees with all of his mockery of Noah's Flood. So you have Christians who can't figure anything out. They're divided on all sides. And then you have the unbelieving world that is just laughing. And we're missing something very key here, very key, that would help across the board with this kind of thing going on.

Steve:
Someone like Gavin Ortlund or anyone else who wants to tackle the topic of the flood needs to be asked the question, what is your date? What is your date for the flood? We have talked about this basic principle many times. What we have to understand, if an event, a story is real, if it really happened in the real world, then we need to have the real world place that it happened, and we need to have the real world date. We need to know when it happened so that we can understand if it's a true story or if it's a fairy tale, if it really is imaginary. If it has no date, if the person discussing the topic has no date, then what do you have left? Why do you even believe the story that you're talking about? Well, in this case, it's believed because it simply comes from a holy book. It's believed simply because we have been told that it's true. It's been preached to us that it's true.

Jennifer:
And we can learn so many spiritual truths from it.

Steve:
Exactly. Yeah, well, you can learn... And there are many people today. I'm not going to name names, but smart people, people who are leaders in the world and society, who they do not believe the Bible to be true, but they do pull from it the moral principles and the lessons that we can learn and all of that. But the question that we have here is, is it true? Because here's the thing. The mockers are mocking and that's a problem. Nobody likes that. The Bill of Mahers of the world, the people putting the memes on Twitter, whatever, they're mocking, but that's not our real problem. Our real fundamental problem in Christianity is, is it true? Is it really true? Is it real? We have pastors today who decided to reject the validity of the Old Testament, basically, because we can't do things like put actual dates on the flood. We can't find it. We can't find it in real world history. We have all kinds of accounts in this, in the ancient Old Testament, like the Exodus, for instance, is another one, that we have had now decade after decade after decade of research and science go into trying to find these events in the real world, and they cannot be found. So we're going to go ahead and discuss the flood and we're going to give our opinions about it. We're going to give our theories about it and, and, you know, talk about why the verse says this or the verse says that in the Bible, but we're never going to nail down a date.

Jennifer:
Real floods have real dates. That's a pretty obvious point. I think if somebody wants to keep saying imaginary, imaginary flood, as Bill Maher has done on this video, if you could enter into that conversation and say, Noah's Flood happened 3520 BC, and here's how we know, it's going to be a little harder to then continue to say it was imaginary. Now, somebody who's a true scoffer may never be reached, but there are young people and Christians who are going to see or hear something like this and they are going to have seeds of doubt planted in their minds. And that is who we are after. We want to be able to have an answer for the legitimate questions of when did this happen? Did it really happen?

Steve:
Right. And it did. And we know that it did. And we have a date. I did a quick Google search on line of famous floods in the U.S.

Jennifer:
Right. Because we were talking about real floods have real dates. That's right. Let me look up some flood. And so I've done it actually right here. I did it again. I Googled famous floods in the U.S. You can do it too. And right first thing that pops up, we have a list of places, a list of towns and a list right there underneath it of dates. The Johnstown flood, 1889. The Ohio River flood of 1937. The Great Mississippi flood 1927. The 1972 Black Hills. We could go on and on, a whole list of floods in the U.S. And again, a place and a date. Where it happened and when it happened. We could go into the Johnstown flood. Let me just click on that. And right here, I'll read it to you from Wikipedia. "The Johnstown flood sometimes referred to locally as the Great Flood of 1889 occurred on Friday, May the 31st, 1889, after the catastrophic failure of the South Fork Dam, on the South Fork of the Little Conemaugh River, 14 miles upstream of the town of Johnsonville, Pennsylvania, United States." Right there in the opening sentences, what do we have? We have, again, the place. Johnstown, Pennsylvania, United States. We have the date to the day, Friday, May the 31st, 1889. Now, what does all that also show us? It shows us the extent of the flood. It shows us how it happened. The catastrophic failure of the South Fork Dam. 

Jennifer
Right. How did the flood happen in this case? A dam failed.

Steve:
A specific Little Conemaugh River, 14 miles upstream, data, data, data. And all of that is showing us the validity of this particular horrible flood.

Jennifer:
It even tells you how many people died, I believe.

Steve:
That's right. It says right here. Let me jump down. The flood killed 2,208 people and then it accounted for this many millions of dollars of damage. Now, that's a flood in a town, as terrible as that is and as horrible as that particular event was. We are talking about The Noah's Flood that the Bible records to have transpired on the earth as a massive, major event.

Jennifer:
Covering the highest mountains.

Steve:
Covering the highest mountains. So the question we want to present here today is where is the basic information that we read in the opening lines of the Johnstown flood in Pennsylvania in 1889? Where is that information for Noah's flood? Yes, in history. We have Gavin Ortlund over here making a video trying to give us his thoughts and ideas. And I'm not dissing that video. There was a lot of things I appreciated about it. We talked about it on our video. But, you know, we can discuss, okay, well, I think it's local, you know, because of the text of Scripture and what the Scripture is saying. Well, no, no, no, it's got to be global because of what the text of Scripture is saying. Back the train up folks. Where's your date? 

Jennifer:
Yeah, when was it?

Steve:
Because we've got to understand when it happens that we can go into the world with our tools that we now have privileged to have today, with our discovery, with our archaeology, with our science, and look with these things that God has provided.

Jennifer:
Well, but just wait a minute here, Steve, because we need to remind ourselves that, we're talking about Bible things here. You know, Noah's Flood. I mean, this was a really, really long time ago. And this was back in the Bible things that happened. And these are very, you know, spiritual, sacred things. And we want the Bible. I mean, you know, don't talking about like radiocarbon and ice cores and things like that. I mean, we want the sacred truth to be brought to us today from this stuff that happened a really long time ago. And don't compare it to the Johnstown flood. I mean, stop. I mean, this is, this is God doing Noah's flood.

Steve:
Right. So the question I have is then why, why would you be a Christian and not a Jehovah's Witness? Now, I mean, I know they think they're Christians. Why would you be a Bible believer and not a Hindu? 

Jennifer:
You're saying because my little spiel there was kind of a role playing spiel in the mind of many Christians today, where we separate out regular stuff from Bible stuff. And Bible history from regular history. And so you're saying, right, I mean, could not members of many cults do the same thing?

Steve:
If you're just going to believe a holy book.

Jennifer:
This is my, this is my holy stuff. Right. And then this is my regular stuff.

Steve:
So what separates Christianity from everything else? What does? What separates Christianity? What makes you as a listener to the podcast say, that's what I believe? Now, I mean, many people would say well it's because I was raised as a Christian.

Jennifer:
We just listened to a chapter out of a book and we're going to delve more into that on a future podcast because it's so good, but what it was touching on was the importance of biblical chronology, the importance of real-world Christianity. And in the chapter of this book by James Jordan, he points out that Christianity is a history-based religion, which sets it apart from many of the other world religions. And if we are a history based religion, we really need to be able to demonstrate the history. The chapter that we listened to there was talking about the error of Gnosticism that always creeps in to the church where, you know, physical stuff is not really good. It's kind of pretty much bad. And spiritual stuff is, is the good stuff.

Steve:
The separation between the spiritual and the physical, the spiritual and the earth.

Jennifer:
And if we can't anchor the history of our faith to the real world, then we've become Gnostic because it all becomes spiritual. This is the spiritual flood, Noah's Flood. Yes, it was real. Yes, it happened in the world, but we're not worried about radiocarbon. We're not worried about a date. We just accept it because it's sacred in our hearts. And we've separated it from something like the Johnstown flood, which is obviously as real as real can be.

Steve:
Nobody would say the Johnstown flood is a myth. That was a fairy tale.

Jennifer:
You can't when you read all that there on the Wikipedia.

Steve:
The data is right there in front of you. The spiritual and the physical go hand in hand. We are learning this and, and it is so very true. It all belongs to the Lord, and it all is pointing to the truth, or to fairy tale. This is what separates Christianity. This is why I'm a Christian. Now when I was three years old, five years old, 12 years old, maybe I didn't understand all of this. I believed the Bible. I believed it by faith. I, we come to Christ by faith. We understand all of that, but it's not a blind faith. If it's a blind faith, then you can just be whatever you want. You know, all roads lead to God, right? I mean, just believe, do you just pick your holy book and go with that and believe it by faith? Well, we have to have something that separates truth from fairy tale land. What about the resurrection? The resurrection of Jesus Christ. There's no Christian that I know of or have ever spoken to that would say, well, I believe in Jesus. I believe Christ died for my sins and I'm a Christian today. Well, do you believe the resurrection is true? Well, not really.

Jennifer:
It's a spiritual truth.

Steve:
I mean, I'm sure there are people who say, people say anything. Um, but we base this on, and Paul taught this, that if Christ be not resurrected from the dead, our faith is in what? Vain.

Jennifer:
And I think most Christians today could answer the question, when did Jesus rise from the dead? I think it's general knowledge that this is the year 2024. And that's because we're that far removed from Jesus Christ.

Steve:
And where did he rise from the dead? Right? I mean, we know these things. These are established, but now when we get into that old Testament, we have all these events that took place and we have been lost, completely lost when it comes to the chronology, to find them in the real world. We understand, like say, for instance, the Exodus, we know where that happened. The Bible tells us Egypt. We understand we can find Egypt on a map today, but we do not know when it happened. We have Bible maps trying to outline the route of that Exodus in the scripture and they're going all over the place. It's comical because we've got a line going up here, one scholar thinks and line going down there. Mount Sinai is literally all over the place. We don't know where it's at. Why? These are major events. The flood, of course, is huge. And just by our illustration there with the Johnstown flood, I'm hoping that can drive home the point.

Jennifer:
I think it definitely does. And I think, you know, the average Christian sitting in the pew on Sunday who works all week and has a very busy life and who was raised in Christianity, loves the Lord, believes the Bible, we're not upset with you. We're upset with people who want to teach on these topics and cannot even lead off with basic facts, basic history. Can they tell you who the civilizations were that were wiped out by Noah's flood? I venture to say they cannot. They do not have a functional date for Noah's flood. They'll talk about a fish fossil on top of a mountain somewhere. They will not talk about entire civilizations that disappeared as a result of the flood. I mean, that's what the Bible is telling us. A lot of people died, a depopulation event. We can argue about if it was local, if it was global. Let's get some real world data so that we can actually answer the question. There's a singular truth about it if it was a historical event. And so that's what we are so passionate about is that we understand these have been difficult waters for Christianity, but it is time to get the real answers out there so that we can be empowered knowing that, yes, Christianity is a history-based religion.

Steve:
Here at the Biblical Chronologist, we have a date. We have the date. You may say, "Well, you're awful bold and brash to just make that claim." It's not just a claim. We are here, Jennifer and I are here to communicate this to you, and to anyone else who will listen, and to whoever you'll spread this information to, that the flood has been dated to within 21 years, plus or minus 21 years of the actual year that it took place, 3520 BC, plus or minus 21 years. And it has been done, not being pulled out of a hat, not being found because we found some little something over here that is a pattern of evidence that gives us something over here that... No, we have found it because we have used modern biblical chronology, dating it in an entirely independent way, using tree ring calibrated radiocarbon, done by a PhD scientist.

Jennifer:
Who specializes in biblical chronology and who is trained in the physical dating methods, and goes, working his way back, dealing with the biblical chronology and the problems, arrives at the date of 3520 BC, plus or minus 21 years for the flood, then goes to secular history, looks at tree ring calibrated radiocarbon dates for events happening, arrives at the date of 3525, plus or minus 12 and a half years BC. These are very precise dates.

Steve:
For that ancient history.

Jennifer:
And then, and this is dating the flood event, and it comes into stunning agreement at an ancient date. Let me let me just tell you this, in one of these conversations on Twitter, an apologetics account on Twitter, a very kind person who was engaging with me and so I asked them, so what date do you place on the flood? And so I got an answer. Here's what they said, "50,000 years ago, plus or minus 40,000 years." The error bars are too wide. I wish it was more precise. They lean more towards a more recent date. Now, if you take that in the margin that he's giving there, you literally have like an 80,000 year range for when Noah's flood happened. There were a lot of floods in the in 80,000 years of virtual history.

Steve:
So the point you're making is whatever side of this issue you land on, we're lost.

Jennifer:
Yeah, that's that's not that's not a real date. Obviously there's a problem here. Right.

Steve:
And again, what we're trying to drive home is we have a date.

Jennifer:
We have a very workable date. That it is there in history and in the science. And it's so precise, it's incredible.

Steve:
And take our Johnstown, Pennsylvania flood as our illustration again. Now that we have established this date, we can now go to the story again, and as you said, the things that validify it, and we can now understand, was it a global flood? Was it a local flood, or was it something completely different? Hemispherical flood. Where are the civilizations that got wiped out? Oh! Now we can we talk about this in our video we made. We can get into the ice cores of the earth. We can get into the anomalies that took place... listen to me... all on the same date. At the same time. In the same civilizations. We could talk about the Ceide Fields of Ireland. I can give you places, me, Steve Hall, who has no degree in science, who has done none of the research. I have the privilege of being able to get on this microphone and give you places. Not Johnstown, Pennsylvania, Ceide Fields of Ireland, Mesopotamia, Palestine.

Jennifer:
The Calcolithic Period that ended so mysteriously and that the scientists said never attained the heights of art and culture that they had before all of a sudden they were gone.

Steve:
And ultimately what we are doing here is showing you and everybody else that the Bible account is true. It really did happen. No Bill Maher, it's not a joke. It's very serious. It did take place just like the Bible says, once you understand how to read that and interpret it correctly, because we have the God given data that the Lord has allowed us to so graciously have. It's wonderful to have these things. And we wanted to take the opportunity with this particular video that came out online to bring this back up again because as hopefully you can see, we have a lot to say about this. We have the most important things to say about this issue.

Jennifer:
Right. We also, you know, there at the Johnstown flood was caused by the failure of a dam. So nobody is wondering where did that water come from that flooded that area. But yet you have those most basic questions even about Noah's flood. If you have a flood that floods the entire globe, where did all that water come from? We're talking about a hemispherical flood, which at first glance sounds hilarious. I would love to hear Bill Maher's reaction if he heard somebody saying that one hemisphere of the world of the globe was flooded. Yet we have a physical scientific explanation for how that happened, just like a dam failing. Here's what happened in the earth that caused one hemisphere of the globe to be flooded. The highest mountains up in Noah's region were definitely covered by this deluge and influx of water coming in. So you're right. You get the date fixed in history, you see the evidence for it, and you can write a Wikipedia article just as detailed as this about the Johnstown flood.

Steve:
If you want more information on this, we have it available. On the show notes there's a video that Jennifer and I made where we dive into, no pun intended, we dive into the subject of the extent of Noah's flood a little bit there in response to Gavin Ortlund's video. We talk in that video about the book. That's the place to go if you really want this information. The Flood Happened 3520 BC written by Dr. Gerald Aardsma. We'll put a link to that in the show notes as well, biblicalchronologist.org. You can find the book there. You can order the book and buy it or it's, he has it available for free.

Jennifer:
Open access, download. I mean, one click and you've got the book right in front of you.

Steve:
The whole information at your fingertips right there, you can look at it for yourself. Don't just believe our podcast. Go look at it for yourself. I mean, I want to take a minute to encourage you to share this information. You may say, look, I, you know, we're going to be talking to a 99 year old lady on our podcast in a little bit who's a dear saint who loves the Lord. And you know, to Eldora that we'll be talking to, none of this might, you know, this may just be like, oh honey, I, I believe it by faith and praise the Lord for that. And that may be you, but you may say, you know what, my pastor maybe could use this information. You know what? Your grandkids are going to need it. I can guarantee you your grandkids and your great grandkids, especially if they're going to go off to some secular university, they need this information. You may know a professor. You may know someone who, who brings up things like the flood. I don't know what the examples might be. Who could you pass this information on to? Who could you send this podcast to? Or our video? We need the truth. We need to shut the mouths of the scoffers and they can be shut.

Jennifer:
And it is wonderful to be able to see this debate happening, hear the scoffing, the mocking, and to be able to know in your heart and in your head that, I'm sorry, but you're wrong. The data is actually not on your side. I'm talking about the scoffers there. And then with the, with the theological debates from the texts of scripture, it's wonderful to be able to say, there's a really easy way to answer this question. It just gives you a peace knowing that you are on the track of truth and reality. And our young people and our churches and our ministries today need to be empowered with this kind of thinking and message.

Steve:
It's great to be on the offense. The unbeliever has been on the offense far too long.

Jennifer:
Our offensive line needs to get bolstered up. And this is the beginning.

Steve:
Get back in the game. Yes, you're right. So, amen. Let's carry on here.

We have another research update to share with you. Another article by Dr. Aardsma. You may have heard us talk in a previous podcast about The Pillar of Cloud, understanding the pillar of cloud in the wilderness that the Israelites followed in the story of the Exodus. Following naturally on the heels of the pillar of cloud article, Dr. Aardsma has produced a new article, this time explaining the science behind the pillar of fire. You all and I, we've all heard this story in Sunday school. We know all about this account where God led the children of Israel in the Exodus as they exited out of Egypt. And then he eventually led them through the wilderness by this pillar of cloud by day and pillar of fire by night. And Dr. Aardsma demonstrates in these new articles with this new research, the science behind how this took place in the real world. Tied in with this article is a YouTube video that Dr. Aardsma points out that shows the appearance of the chemical phenomenon which was happening in the pillar of fire. And when you see it, you will say, "No wonder the Israelites called it the pillar of fire."

Jennifer:
You can see the color of what looks for all the world like flickering flames in this chemical reaction that's happening as a result of these unique atmospheric conditions that were going on with this huge multitude in the wilderness, and all the cattle and everything that you've heard us talk about with the manna and all of that. But again, we're not Gnostics. I mean, this isn't just giving us spiritual truth. This is real world stuff and it can be real world explained.

Steve:
And the fact that it can is wonderful because we can go back and we can see it. We can show how it happened in the real world. It's not fairy tale land. It's very real. It really did happen. And it's just wonderful again to be able to show that.

Jennifer:
And as this podcast is being recorded, just yesterday a brand new article came out following along more with the track of the Israelites in the wilderness, the Location of Ezion-Geber, which is not only mentioned with the Israelites in the wilderness, but is also mentioned in the time of Solomon and a port where Solomon had ships. Now we know where this is on the map. In relation with all of these other sites. Yet another exciting development. And another one came to our inbox. I'm telling you, Dr. Aardsma is keeping us hopping over here with this research rolling in. Another one came into our inbox for proofing that's going to be released in the next several days here on the wilderness of sure. Sure. However you pronounce that. Sure.

Steve:
Sure. You did good on the other pronunciation. Ezion-Geber. We were laughing about that because she had written, what did you have written down?

Jennifer:
Ebion-Gezer.

Steve:
Ebeon... no, Ebeon-Gezer, Eggeon-Gezer. Or something like that. Ezion-Geber. Yes, check it out. The show notes, there's links. There's a link to this pillar of fire article. You can get on biblicalchronologist.org and look up Dr. Aardsma's newsletters on the sidebar and check these things out.

Jennifer:
It's truly unique. You will not find this caliber and this extent of biblical research evidence anywhere else.

All right, we got to move right along now to our anti-aging section. As we said, this is going to tie in with an interview with a 99-year-old. The Helen's View that we're about to hear is going to serve as our anti-aging update this month. Going back to the Bill Maher segment that we referenced earlier where this comedian is having such a grand time talking about Noah and the Ark, of course, he cannot resist pointing out a man who was 500 years old decided to have three kids just like Clint Eastwood, he says on his video. He has three kids when he's 500. When they are 100 and he is 600 they all build an Ark. Of course, the audience is almost rolling in the floor the way that he's presenting this as so hysterical. But the truth is, I've also heard Christian audiences laugh. I went to a play once, a portrayal of Noah in the play. "We're only in our 430's." and it comes across so funny. And we ourselves as Christians can't help but laugh at that because certainly that's not anything we're experiencing today. But again, we have to come back to the realization that we want to fight these gnostic tendencies within the church, that somehow anybody living a really long time is just like Bible stuff, and has nothing to do with anybody living today. In fact, sometimes you can get a reaction of, "What a weird thing to do." from Christians. What a weird thing to do, try to research lifespans and I'm not sure if that's even right. That's just too much, too real-world. And we're supposed to be thinking on spiritual things, not earthly things. So again, that gnosticism is creeping in.

Steve:
We take the Word of God seriously. We take all of it as real-world history. The aging, the lifespans included. Those lifespans in the Bible, we take them literally and show that we're not going to be gnostics about it, even silent gnostics who wouldn't say that, "Well, of course we take it literally, of course we do..." And then laugh, you know, like, "How's that even in the real world?" Like you said. Well, no, it is in the real world. And what if we could, as God's people, discover how they live to be those ages? Wouldn't that be wonderful to figure that out if God allowed that?

Jennifer:
Yes, it would. Imagine a world with more birthdays in it.

Steve:
With more birthdays, that's exactly right.

Jennifer:
We know life is good. It's a gift from God. You don't have to be a brilliant scientist to know that. As a Bible believer, as a follower of Christ.

Steve:
So just as the flood is real in the real world and we can see it for ourselves as we find the date, we understand it more, the lifespans. Those ages are those people before the flood, something happened in that flood that stopped it. What was it? What was going on? Well, there are answers again for these things.

Jennifer:
And amazingly, the flood and the lifespan research done here all ties together because truth leads to more truth and more doors open to you as you pursue down this path of discovery.

Steve:
That's right. And we are trying to work our way to Eldora.

Jennifer
Yes, right.

Steve:
And Eldora is 99 years old, a dear friend. Now that's something that she's 99 and taking the vitamins. And there is an explanation that Dr. Aardsma gives in his theory on aging as to why potentially someone who's this old, who's made it to this point, can benefit from the vitamins in a different way, maybe even than others.

Jennifer:
We will expound more on that in a future episode, but just suffice it to say for now that the aging theory shows that once you get to be in your upper nineties, nearing a hundred, you stand to benefit in a special way from the vitamins because some of the other damage, aging related damage, that's going on in the body is saturating out. And literally without the anti-aging vitamins, you will die of deficiency of those vitamins alone at those advanced ages near one hundred, which of course, almost nobody makes it that far. So that's so amazing that here we have this dear friend who is happy to supplement the vitamins and she is 99. You will hear her talking with such clarity. And this is not to say that you should wait until you're in your nineties to start taking the anti-aging vitamins. You stand to benefit in enormous ways the sooner that you can get started with them in your daily supplementation.

Steve:
So if you try to wait till your nineties, you're probably not going to make it.

Jennifer:
Right. Like I just said, most people don't make it that far. So don't gamble with that. But I'm just saying that this is an amazing real world evidence of this part of the theory that we're seeing with Eldora.

Steve:
That's right. Well, here's Helen's View. Helen has a little introduction about Eldora. And then you'll hear actually Helen and myself interviewing Eldora.

Helen:
This time around, I have a very special interview with my dear and longtime friend, Eldora. To share with you. She lived close by me and has been a big part of my life for almost 30 years now. She became my adopted mom because my mom lived far away and we became her family as she was a widow and her grown children were far away. She attended all of my kids birthday parties and weddings and we shared some great joys together. She often hosted our friends and family when they came home to visit as we lived in a very small house with no room for house guests. Eldora has the gift of mercy. She blessed me with compassion and care during some very deep trials in my life. She cried with me and prayed for me and my family regularly. I could always talk to her knowing she would listen and empathize with me. Eldora has also been taking Dr. Aardsma's Anti-Aging Vitamins for over five years now. And importantly, she has just celebrated her 99th birthday. She came to visit me with her son, Henry. Gerald and Steve were also present. At the last minute, we decided to do an interview with her and have her share some things about her 99 years of life. During the interview, we were all amazed at her quick mind and recall of facts from many years ago, especially since she had not had time to do any preparation for the interview. It was a precious time.

All right. I'm very excited today to be visiting with my friend Eldora, who I met a long time ago now it seems. We've been here 29 years and we met you about a year after we moved here. So I'd say we've known each other for 28 years.

Eldora:
Probably.

Helen:
Eldora has been a very big blessing to me. She's been like an adopted mom to me. She is turning 99 years old next week, which is just truly amazing. I wish you could see her and how amazing she looks for 99. She's able to keep up with everything that goes on around here and that's really neat to see her doing so well. I'm going to do a little interview and ask Eldora questions about various things and ask her about taking the vitamins because she's been on the vitamins for a long time, almost from the very beginning of the discovery, about a year later. So Eldora, tell me how we met.

Eldora:
You had some garden produce that you were selling and I needed some... I think it was tomatoes and corn. And so I came to the gate, you walked to the gate and you had... The children were playing a game or something and I said, "Oh, you got company." And you said, "Oh, no, those are all my children." And then you were pregnant also. So anyway, then you had a big family. So I told you what I wanted and you went and got it for me. And then we got to talking and you said that your daughter is at Pensacola Christian College. And I said, "Well, that's a program that I watch every Sunday evening." And I said, "There's a girl on there that plays the harp." And I said, "That just fascinates me." And that's kind of how it started, that it was your daughter. And you said, you had never seen them because you didn't have a TV. So I invited all of you the next Sunday, your family, to come to my home to watch it. And all the kids sat on the floor. I can remember that just so vividly. And we got to see the program then, got to see your daughter. And that's kind of how I met you. And from there, it kind of started as a friendship. And so we just kind of kept in touch.

Helen:
One of the things that fascinated us, our family, to you was that it reminded you very much of the family that you grew up in. So tell us a little bit about that, your family.

Helen:
Yes. I had a large family. There were eight girls and three boys. Just a wonderful time. And the reason I wrote even a book about it was my memories of living on the farm is because I wanted my nieces and nephews to know what their parents and grandparents were like. And so that's what motivated me to write in it. Everything is so vivid in my mind that it was just like I was there again. And so I jotted it down in handwriting. And then I asked my niece, Janice, if she would type it for maybe a book that I could make and give to my nieces and nephews. And that's kind of how it started.

Helen:
Right. So you lived on a farm. Was it a dairy farm?

Eldora:
My dad was a farmer. And Anna, the firstborn, she was his right hand. She worked in the field just like a man would. And they shut, at that time they shucked corn. You know, I call it shucked corn.

Helen:
By hand?

Eldora:
Yeah, by hand. And so she was right there with him and helped him. And then of course, then as the boys got bigger, they kind of took over the farm. Anna got older and worked away from home. So that's kind of how I grew up. I loved the farm. Loved the gardening that my mom did and truck patches. I mean, they were self-sufficient.

Helen:
So was he doing soybean and corn then? For a living? Your father?

Eldora:
Yeah. Well, at that time they raised corn, and I know we had a big straw stack, so we had to raise oats. And hay. So.

Helen:
What kind of machinery were they using way back then? What years were we talking about here? What year were you born?

Eldora:
Horses.

Helen:
What year were you born?

Eldora:
1925.

Helen:
And so there were no tractors?

Eldora:
No, no electricity. Finally, we did get electricity, but no. Everything was improvised and had a wonderful, well, mom was the best cook, and every time we'd come home from school, she would always bake something in the afternoon and we'd had some fresh kura, or it's a German word, either bread or some sort of a pastry and a glass of milk. It's always waiting for us.

Helen:
When you got home from school.

Eldora:
Yeah.

Helen:
Yeah, that's really something.

Helen:
So you were one of how many children?

Eldora:
Eleven.

Helen:
And where are you in the lineup?

Eldora:
Second to the youngest.

Helen:
Second to the youngest. So one of the things I remember being so touched by your life was how you took care of your parents, I believe. Is that right?

Eldora:
Right, my mother. My dad died when I was a junior in high school, so I never got to take care of him. He died in the hospital.

Helen:
Now did he have a heart attack or something?

Eldora:
He had congestive heart failure.

Helen:
Okay. And how old was he?

Eldora:
60... 60 something.

Helen:
So that's still way too young to die for sure. So you took care of your mother in your own home, correct? 

Eldora:
Right, but I went to nurses training.

Helen:
And was this before you got married that you took care of her? And did she die then before you got married? 

Eldora:
Yes.

Helen:
Okay. And how old was she when she died?

Eldora:
She was in her 70s. I had that all written down, but I don't remember it now. She was in her 70s.

Helen:
So then the other thing is,you're the only one living now of all your siblings, is that correct?

Eldora:
Yes.

Helen:
I remember you sharing with me that one of your goals and prayers was that you would be able to take care of your siblings as they got older.

Eldora:
And that developed.

Helen:
And did you do that with all 10 of them?

Eldora:
Well, some died suddenly. Nathalia and Eddie, we called her. She died of a massive heart attack just like that. You know, just suddenly. So she never was really sick. And my brother Walter had to go to service and he was killed in service. And he was just 24 years old.

Helen:
Oh my goodness. Isn't that sad? What was his name?

Eldora:
Walter.

Helen:
Heartbreaking. It must have been tough for your mom.

Helen:
Emily, the one that had breast cancer. She was a survivor. She lived to be 95.

Helen:
I remember you taking care of her. I remember you talking to me about her.

Eldora:
Yeah. And my oldest sister, Anna, lived to be, I think, 92. So actually, I don't know if you call that longevity.

Helen:
Yes. But are you the oldest living of anybody in your family?

Eldora:
Oh, yes. Well, there's nobody living except me.

Helen:
Yes. That's right. You told me that already. So that's interesting. So then you, when you were a child, you wanted to grow up, you wanted to be a nurse on the mission field. Is that correct?

Eldora:
Yeah. Even playing with my dolls. Yes. I had a doll that was coming apart. The sewing was coming apart. It could have been sewed up, but I bandaged it instead and gave it a lot of attention.

Helen:
So you love to nurture people. So you were introduced to Dr. Aardsma's anti-aging vitamins because you knew our family. And of course, Gerald's the one that discovered it. And we came to visit you. I'm trying to figure out what year that was.

Eldora:
Well, I remember you giving me my first bottle when you came to visit me.

Helen:
Yes. I'm going to say five to seven years ago. And we came to visit you and we told you about the vitamins. And I think we had been talking on the phone quite a bit over the years and I was telling you about the research and what was happening and told you about this discovery. And then of course you knew that Gerald was terribly sick and then tested one of his ideas for the vitamins and cured himself basically of his CIDP. Did you ever see Jerry when he was sick or did you only know about it?

Eldora:
Well, not really.

Helen:
I don't think you were already moved over to Indiana at that point. So he's just turning almost, he's turning 69 and it was when he turned 50 that he got CIDP. So that's almost 20 years ago. I remember telling you about this miracle that had happened that Jerry basically cured himself with his own vitamins that he had discovered. And so then we shared to you about the vitamins and then brought you a bottle when we came to visit you that one time. And then you started to take the vitamins. Now you may I don't know how much you remember about this, but I think after you'd been on the vitamins for about a year, you said something to me like this terrible shoulder pain that you had went away. And I remember you saying, well, it was either God or the vitamins. Do you remember anything at all when you first started taking the vitamins about any like sleeping better or?

Eldora:
No, no, no. I mean, I take the vitamins now, but... this isn't a good testimony for the vitamin. But that's one of my problems is not being able to go to sleep right away. I lose a lot of sleep. I don't know what I do, but it just seems like my mind won't shut off.

Helen:
Yes. Do you feel like the vitamins, because you're such a positive, happy person, you've always been and you even are now, but some people find that when they start taking the vitamins, it really helps their mood. They don't feel so... depressed is too strong of a word.

Eldora:
I'm never depressed. I can't be because God is with me honey. And he's my best companion. Sometimes I think that I talk to him too much and gets him tired. I don't think so maybe, because I count on him, you know.

Helen:
Of course, all this is very new with the research and with the vitamins and obviously we have to wait quite a long time to see. But the fact that you're still alive at 99 and you're the oldest living in your family does say something. And whether it's the vitamins, and these like modern vitamins help us with lots of things. God uses those in our lives too.

Steve:
So I'll go ahead and say that I'm here at the interview as well. And Eldora, it's good to see you, and we're so thankful that you were willing to take our questions here today and answer some things. Let me ask you this. Eldora, go ahead and tell us what is your living situation now? I remember you years ago when I was dating Jennifer and I would actually stay with you at your house here in Illinois.

Eldora:
That's right. I remember that.

Steve:
And so you lived here in our area in Illinois for a number of years. You have memories of the school where we're sitting at now. We were just talking about that a minute ago. But you don't live in Illinois any longer. You're now in Indiana, which is where you grew up and where your family, most of your family lives.

Eldora:
Yes. Well, yes. My nieces is a nephews are in the area. And I have some that are, you know, like in Florida and Colorado, but the majority of them are in the areas around me.

Steve:
Okay. And what is your living situation now?

Eldora:
I live in a condo and I don't have to do any outside work because it's all taken care of. And it's a perfect place for me. I love it. I have a sun room which has got a lot of windows and I love to watch birds and so there's a bird feeder out at several windows, you know. I did have a canary, but he died. So.

Steve:
And you live by yourself?

Eldora:
Yes, I do. I do, by myself. And I can still take my own shower and the only thing is my balance is totally gone. So I have to use a walker and hang on to stuff, you know, so that I don't fall. I have fallen already, but nothing broken. So I've been very fortunate.

Steve:
Yes. Do you take the vitamin drops, Dr. Aardsma's Vitamins every day?

Eldora:
Oh yes. I usually take it with my supper time.

Steve:
Okay. And you've been doing that faithfully now for a number of years?

Eldora:
A few years, yes. I would say maybe four or five, something like that.

Steve:
I asked you this a minute ago when we weren't on the microphone, I'll ask you again, did you ever think you'd live to be 99 years old?

Eldora:
Oh no, no, no, no, no. Good land, no. But you know, it isn't bad. It isn't bad to be 99. I still enjoy life. And I'm doing everything that I... well, no, I shouldn't say that. I don't do my sweeping anymore. And I used to do all my mopping, but not anymore. I do have assistants that come in and help me with that. But I still do my dusting and can't make a bed. And so, the one girl that does my mopping, she'll make my beds. And you know how much she charges for a bed? Two dollars.

Steve:
Two dollars!

Eldora:
Can you believe that? And so, and she doesn't work by the hour because she is so fast, she would never make any money. And so she can have my bed made and the floor mopped in 20 minutes. So anyway, I think I have, and I get a hug every time she leaves. So don't you think it's about as good as you can get?

Steve:
That is very neat. Let me ask you this question. What are you most thankful for at this point in your life?

Eldora:
My salvation. And well, you know, God just never leaves me. He's always there and I can talk to him. And I'm just sorry that Jesus had to have so much pain, you know? But I believe and I trust and I'm happy.

Steve:
Well that's really neat to have. Have that interview with Eldora and she's just, what's the word? She's just cogent.

Jennifer:
Yeah, she's sharp.

Steve:
Sharp. She can remember facts. I can't remember... what is my birthday? I'll be 48, won't I? My goodness. I'll be 48. I can't remember probably half...

Eldora:
Well, you've never had a good memory, so you can't blame it on anything but just genetics.

Jennifer:
Oh now, look Betty, I mean Jennifer...

Jennifer:
Oh man. Well, I'll tell you, how much the world has changed in Eldora's lifetime and that is a precious gift to have that conversation with her recorded there. I'm sure Eldora would say the years have flown because that's how we all feel. You know, life is a precious gift and birthdays are good and life is good and time is precious that God gives to us with every passing year. And so we thank our listeners, you know, for spending your time with us once a month, taking time out to listen to these discussions and hopefully benefiting from them.

Steve:
Yes, and as always, if you have any comments, if you have any questions or anything, please drop us a line. We're happy to respond to emails and texts, whatever. And we would love to answer any questions that you might have. Thank you for joining us.

Jennifer:
We will see you in March when we plan to discuss seeing Easter with new eyes.

Steve:
Yeah, Easter, seeing Easter with new eyes. I'm looking forward to it already. We'll see you then. Bye.